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TV advice just isn't the ticket
Beware the well-intentioned words of TV presenters, says Helen Dolphin. When it comes to parking and parking penalties, they don't always get it right
Like many drivers I have received the odd penalty charge notice
(PCN) - or parking ticket as they are more colloquially known - in my
time. Usually they were for stupid mistakes like forgetting to display
my Blue Badge or parking for longer than I should have. However, not
all PCNs are the same as different organisations enforce parking rules
and this means your rights vary depending on who issued the ticket.
In most parts of the UK on-street parking is enforced by council-employed Civil Enforcement Officers who issue Penalty Charge Notices through the civil justice system. Some council car parks have parking attendants who can issue Penalty Charge Notices which you can challenge in the same way as a PCN issued to a vehicle parked on the street. However, some other off-street car parks are managed by private companies and this is where it can become more complicated.
I had always presumed that whoever issued the ticket you either had to contest it or just pay up so when I was watching the BBC Watchdog TV programme recently I was surprised to hear the advice given out. This was basically to "ignore parking tickets issued by private operators". This advice given out by a solicitor was endorsed by the presenters as "perfect" and "brilliant legal advice" and they even suggested that viewers made paper darts from their tickets to see how far they would fly!
So is it OK to just flaunt parking rules in off-street privately run car parks without fear of redress? Kelvin Reynolds, Director of Operations and Technical Services from the British Parking Association (BPA) says not. "Unfortunately Watchdog seemed to imply that it is perfectly acceptable for somebody to stay as long as they like in a private car park provided by a retailer for its customers and that these drivers can ignore any action taken by the retailer. It is lawful for a landowner to manage his land and to seek compensation for breach of contract.
The BPA is aware of many cases where our members have successfully pursued these claims through the courts and judgements have been made in favour of the operator."
If the advice from Watchdog was true and drivers could ignore any parking ticket issued to them it could end up being a nightmare for Blue Badge holders. We all know how frustrating it is to find all the disabled bays taken by non-disabled people and if tickets can be completely ignored there would be nothing to stop bay abusers. Also, if all tickets are ignored in the longer term, it would probably lead to a greater number of companies using clamping as an enforcement technique as this is far harder for motorists to ignore! Although valid Blue Badge holders shouldn't be clamped, if you forget to display your badge then obviously this exemption won't apply. Coming back to a clamped car is a far more physical and immediate punishment for contravention than a parking ticket and if you are on your own and it's late at night it could be really frightening. It is also much easier to appeal a ticket than try to escape paying to have a clamp removed.
So although it's tempting to ignore any parking tickets in the future I'm not convinced by Watchdog's advice and I, like most other motorists, will be paying or appealing my tickets.
no clamp
Posted by
john hart
at
02 Sep 10 20:19
this advice is not true by noclamp or taffy056 on mse he all way talking s**t
John
Posted by
Craig Lewis
at
02 Sep 10 20:31
Show me legislation that covers this then, the tickets are not enforceable, and countless courts have agreed with this, basically if you are going to say anything, try saying the truth instead of lies, I can back up the above verifiable facts!
A typo of the above
Posted by
Craig Lewis
at
02 Sep 10 23:44
6) The blue badge scheme does NOT operate in private car parks.
PLease don't spread incorrect BPA propaganda
Posted by
Emily Chester
at
02 Sep 10 22:15
Helen Dolphin, please get you facts right, I fear that Mobilise has been crushed under the pressure of their friends in the private parking industry.
QUOTE
If the advice from Watchdog was true and drivers could ignore any parking ticket issued to them
QUOTE
Answer - the advice given by Watchdog IS correct, private parking tickets mean diddly squat and can be safely ignored. More shocking is the threatening letters that those companies write to try to scare and bully people (including disabled people) into paying a spuriously high penalty amount.
QUOTE
it could end up being a nightmare for Blue Badge holders.
QUOTE
Answer - It already is a nightmare, when disabled and able-bodied people alike get those threatening letters saying they are going to be dragged to Court and face bailiffs for an 'offence' that simply doesn't exist and would not be upheld by a judge!
QUOTE
We all know how frustrating it is to find all the disabled bays taken by non-disabled people
QUOTE
Errr...no, what you are describing is disabled bays which are full, that's all - frustrating but not worthy of a fake PCN. No-one can know whether the drivers, passengers or people the driver is collecting are non-disabled, because as I am sure you know really, Blue Badges don't actually apply at all on private land. It's only your friends in the private parking 'industry' who like to pretend otherwise to give them more excuses to issue their bogus tickets.
Just to let everyone know, I do NOT condone parking in a disabled bay if the driver or a passenger is not disabled. But to directly discriminate against recently-diagnosed people who would fit the DDA definition of disability seem to be a DDA breach by private parking companies and the retail landowner/occupiers who employ them to waste their time issuing their paper aeroplanes there. Disabled visitors are perfectly entitled to use disabled spaces on private land, and that includes non Blue Badge-holding, genuine disabled people (e.g. those visiting from outside the EU, those who rarely travel by car so have never needed to obtain a Blue Badge, those who have recently been diagnosed, those whose Blue Badge has dropped down, those who have forgotten to display it, etc).
Your naivety and belief in what the BPA has told you is stunning.
QUOTE
If the advice from Watchdog was true and drivers could ignore any parking ticket issued to them
QUOTE
Answer - the advice given by Watchdog IS correct, private parking tickets mean diddly squat and can be safely ignored. More shocking is the threatening letters that those companies write to try to scare and bully people (including disabled people) into paying a spuriously high penalty amount.
QUOTE
it could end up being a nightmare for Blue Badge holders.
QUOTE
Answer - It already is a nightmare, when disabled and able-bodied people alike get those threatening letters saying they are going to be dragged to Court and face bailiffs for an 'offence' that simply doesn't exist and would not be upheld by a judge!
QUOTE
We all know how frustrating it is to find all the disabled bays taken by non-disabled people
QUOTE
Errr...no, what you are describing is disabled bays which are full, that's all - frustrating but not worthy of a fake PCN. No-one can know whether the drivers, passengers or people the driver is collecting are non-disabled, because as I am sure you know really, Blue Badges don't actually apply at all on private land. It's only your friends in the private parking 'industry' who like to pretend otherwise to give them more excuses to issue their bogus tickets.
Just to let everyone know, I do NOT condone parking in a disabled bay if the driver or a passenger is not disabled. But to directly discriminate against recently-diagnosed people who would fit the DDA definition of disability seem to be a DDA breach by private parking companies and the retail landowner/occupiers who employ them to waste their time issuing their paper aeroplanes there. Disabled visitors are perfectly entitled to use disabled spaces on private land, and that includes non Blue Badge-holding, genuine disabled people (e.g. those visiting from outside the EU, those who rarely travel by car so have never needed to obtain a Blue Badge, those who have recently been diagnosed, those whose Blue Badge has dropped down, those who have forgotten to display it, etc).
Your naivety and belief in what the BPA has told you is stunning.
Emily Chester and Craig Lewis
Posted by
john hart
at
02 Sep 10 22:32
I bet you two love parking disbled bays so disabled people cannot park
Emily Chester and Craig Lewis
Emily Chester and Craig Lewis
John
Posted by
Craig Lewis
at
02 Sep 10 23:43
Actually I never park in disabled parking bays, because I am not disabled and I do actually have respect for people who needs these to park in because of their circumstances.
What I don't do perpetuate a lie and try to scam people out of money by pretending to invoice people, and then trying to pass that off as a fine, obviously that is against the law, and when a debt collector or solicitor writes to say to pay a ppc ticket they are bogus, and are trying to frighten people to pay, they don't care if you are disabled or not.
What I don't do perpetuate a lie and try to scam people out of money by pretending to invoice people, and then trying to pass that off as a fine, obviously that is against the law, and when a debt collector or solicitor writes to say to pay a ppc ticket they are bogus, and are trying to frighten people to pay, they don't care if you are disabled or not.
John
Posted by
Craig Lewis
at
02 Sep 10 23:54
By the way are you going to tell us which PPC you work for? I am guessing UKCPS ?
Facebook group against Mobilise working with PPC's
Posted by
Dis Gusted
at
03 Sep 10 00:13
Please join the following facebook group to stand against Mobilise bullying disabled people into paying invoices they are legally not required to, and breaking the Disability Discrimination Act in the process at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=146057145420931
Blue badge scheme
Posted by
Dis Gusted
at
03 Sep 10 00:19
Please do bear in mind that the blue badge scheme in itself is a complete joke. It does not apply on private land. What's worse is people are awarded them for the most silly reasons, I have known of physically fit people who have them just because they're a bit fat. A blue badge on display does not mean the driver or any of the passengers is in fact disabled as family members like to borrow other people's badges. There is also a big black market underground trade in them where they are stolen from cars and sold to lazy people who want to park anywhere they can.
If I was a disabled person (I am under the DDA but not IMO disabled enough to apply for a blue badge or use disabled spaces) I would park in supermarkets disabled spaces and not display the badge to a) make a point, and b) prevent its theft and subsequent misuse.
If I was a disabled person (I am under the DDA but not IMO disabled enough to apply for a blue badge or use disabled spaces) I would park in supermarkets disabled spaces and not display the badge to a) make a point, and b) prevent its theft and subsequent misuse.
Funny if it wasn't so disturbing
Posted by
Peter Taylor
at
03 Sep 10 09:05
Had Mobilise entered into this arrangement with UKCPS without having done due diligence and knowing how they behave towards the very disabled people they are supporting, then they could expect some sympathy while they try to distance themselves. But it is now a quite odious turn of events that this article turns up here with Helen Dolphin lending her support and giving incorrect advice about UKCPS, the BPA, and their questionable tactics.
Just a quick search of sites like Pepipoo and CAG show what advice, AND EVIDENCE, many have already tried giving Mobilise on it's bizarre support of UKCPS.
I don't know what UKCPS paid Mobilise, but they must be doing cartwheels about the support they are getting from them.
QUOTE:
"Unfortunately Watchdog seemed to imply that it is perfectly acceptable for somebody to stay as long as they like in a private car park provided by a retailer for its customers and that these drivers can ignore any action taken by the retailer. It is lawful for a landowner to manage his land and to seek compensation for breach of contract
UNQUOTE:
Well I've watched this on Youtube (I advise others to) and cannot see or hear anywhere that such a thing is suggested or implied.
Anyway. Nuff said. I'm off now to to look on the British Islamic Society's website and see if it has accepted any sponsorship from the National Front....
Just a quick search of sites like Pepipoo and CAG show what advice, AND EVIDENCE, many have already tried giving Mobilise on it's bizarre support of UKCPS.
I don't know what UKCPS paid Mobilise, but they must be doing cartwheels about the support they are getting from them.
QUOTE:
"Unfortunately Watchdog seemed to imply that it is perfectly acceptable for somebody to stay as long as they like in a private car park provided by a retailer for its customers and that these drivers can ignore any action taken by the retailer. It is lawful for a landowner to manage his land and to seek compensation for breach of contract
UNQUOTE:
Well I've watched this on Youtube (I advise others to) and cannot see or hear anywhere that such a thing is suggested or implied.
Anyway. Nuff said. I'm off now to to look on the British Islamic Society's website and see if it has accepted any sponsorship from the National Front....
Light on facts
Posted by
Tom Evans
at
03 Sep 10 10:02
Nice propaganda piece; some very recognisable parking industry standard copy there.
Private companies do occasionally get a default judgment but don't tend to do defended court cases. You cannot create an enforceable contract to wrongly park in a disabled bay in return for a fee.
By all means campaign for reform of the law, but don;t misreoresent the situation, and at the same time, get the unfair and discriminatory blue badge system changed to reflect the diverse nature of disability.
Private companies do occasionally get a default judgment but don't tend to do defended court cases. You cannot create an enforceable contract to wrongly park in a disabled bay in return for a fee.
By all means campaign for reform of the law, but don;t misreoresent the situation, and at the same time, get the unfair and discriminatory blue badge system changed to reflect the diverse nature of disability.
Sigh....
Posted by
confuseddotcom
at
10 Sep 10 13:35
How many of you people who keep saying the piece Helen has written is propaganda and wrong, have actually rang Mobilise and had a conversation with her about the legality and the whys and wherefores of it all?
How many of you attend meetings to do with the Parking Industry, are members of DPTAC or attend JCMD meetings, and write responses to Government Papers? Well???..... Do you think that Mobilise are going to do something that predjudices what they work hard for?
Do you really think she is doing this with her head buried in the sand? She is a very well informed person with excellent knowledge of the blue badge scheme and the DDA. Are far as I'm aware she is also a blue badge holder too. She's hardly going to work against herself is she?
The problem with all you keyboard warriors is you just cherry pick the info that you want to pick on and won't ever listen to a balanced view on it. Because you're always right. Hmmm!
I bet you're the same people who challanged the banks for their punitive charges and because you lost that one, you're having to pick on something else. When CCTV is allowed to be used in private car parks and the owner of the car become respopnsible for the charges I guess you'll have to find something else to pick on.
At least Mobilise and Helen are getting involved. You're never going to solve anything sitting at your computers bashing away at your keyboards all day, (well, the five of you that do it at least!!!)
I can see that Mr Dis Gusted is really getting the word out with his facebook group. 19 members in just under 6 weeks, wow, if you keep going at that rate, you'll have almost 70 members by christmas! I'm impressed!! Not.
So, come on, I dare you. Who will be the first to ring her and have a decent conversation with her. I think you'll find she really does know her stuff.
Say what you want about me, I don't care. I am sticking up for Helen as I have followed Helens career since she was with Anglia and since joining Mobilise. She is a decent person who is willing to get stuck in. Not an ounce of maliciousness about her. She hasn't even taken to responding to all of your words about her. Probably because she doesn't want to lower herself to your level....
Toodle pip
How many of you attend meetings to do with the Parking Industry, are members of DPTAC or attend JCMD meetings, and write responses to Government Papers? Well???..... Do you think that Mobilise are going to do something that predjudices what they work hard for?
Do you really think she is doing this with her head buried in the sand? She is a very well informed person with excellent knowledge of the blue badge scheme and the DDA. Are far as I'm aware she is also a blue badge holder too. She's hardly going to work against herself is she?
The problem with all you keyboard warriors is you just cherry pick the info that you want to pick on and won't ever listen to a balanced view on it. Because you're always right. Hmmm!
I bet you're the same people who challanged the banks for their punitive charges and because you lost that one, you're having to pick on something else. When CCTV is allowed to be used in private car parks and the owner of the car become respopnsible for the charges I guess you'll have to find something else to pick on.
At least Mobilise and Helen are getting involved. You're never going to solve anything sitting at your computers bashing away at your keyboards all day, (well, the five of you that do it at least!!!)
I can see that Mr Dis Gusted is really getting the word out with his facebook group. 19 members in just under 6 weeks, wow, if you keep going at that rate, you'll have almost 70 members by christmas! I'm impressed!! Not.
So, come on, I dare you. Who will be the first to ring her and have a decent conversation with her. I think you'll find she really does know her stuff.
Say what you want about me, I don't care. I am sticking up for Helen as I have followed Helens career since she was with Anglia and since joining Mobilise. She is a decent person who is willing to get stuck in. Not an ounce of maliciousness about her. She hasn't even taken to responding to all of your words about her. Probably because she doesn't want to lower herself to your level....
Toodle pip
Groan....
Posted by
Peter Taylor
at
16 Sep 10 00:56
In answer to your first point - Helen Dolphin wrote an open letter defending her position, this is posted on an open forum. I think you will find the comments from 'us people' on here respond to that as well as to this article.
In answer to your second point - The private parking companies in question use bullying and misleading tactics to exact payment of fines that they have no right (moral or statutory) to impose. That is the issue I and I believe others here are emphasising.
In answer to your third point - Yes, I really do think Mobilise is doing something that prejudices it's reputation. And I think Helen and Mobilise now realise that, but are burying their heads in the sand.
In answer to your fourth point - I'll listen to a balanced view, and encourage Helen to present one. She could perhaps list all the problems disabled drivers suffer at the hands of these unscrupulous companies.
In answer to your fourth point - Er, nope. I have never challenged Bank charges of any kind.
In answer to your fifth point - They are certainly getting involved. I think I and others here are simply trying to open Mobilise's and Helen's eyes as to WHO they are getting involved with!
In answer to your seventh point - I think Mrs Chester alreay has.
In answer to your eighth point - Read the article above! Helen CLEARLY supports the activities of these lowlife PPCs. It is that support, and its total absurdity, that I am commenting on. I am sure she is a very nice person, as all are at Mobilise, and I and others are just pointing out how misguided their endorsement of UKCPS is.
Pete
In answer to your second point - The private parking companies in question use bullying and misleading tactics to exact payment of fines that they have no right (moral or statutory) to impose. That is the issue I and I believe others here are emphasising.
In answer to your third point - Yes, I really do think Mobilise is doing something that prejudices it's reputation. And I think Helen and Mobilise now realise that, but are burying their heads in the sand.
In answer to your fourth point - I'll listen to a balanced view, and encourage Helen to present one. She could perhaps list all the problems disabled drivers suffer at the hands of these unscrupulous companies.
In answer to your fourth point - Er, nope. I have never challenged Bank charges of any kind.
In answer to your fifth point - They are certainly getting involved. I think I and others here are simply trying to open Mobilise's and Helen's eyes as to WHO they are getting involved with!
In answer to your seventh point - I think Mrs Chester alreay has.
In answer to your eighth point - Read the article above! Helen CLEARLY supports the activities of these lowlife PPCs. It is that support, and its total absurdity, that I am commenting on. I am sure she is a very nice person, as all are at Mobilise, and I and others are just pointing out how misguided their endorsement of UKCPS is.
Pete
Court Cases
Posted by
David Cronan
at
10 Sep 10 15:04
Private parking companies have lost many cases in court when trying to pursue drivers over their fake parking tickets. One comapny (OPC) has lost 10 cases in the last few weeks and Trethowans lost a case a couple of weeks ago when the Judge ruled that the £50 demanded was a penalty and it did not represent the true loss (i.e, nothing) that was suffered by the landowner. You must remember that private parking tickets are covered by civil law which states that one private citizen (the parking company) cannot punish another private citizen (the driver). Thus the landowner/parking company can only claim for any actual material loss suffered. Anything else would be deemed an unfair penalty.
PPC Loses in Court
Posted by
David Cronan
at
10 Sep 10 18:53
Yet another example of how private parking companies operate:-
"News from Wakefield County Court today: UKPAO have had £1000 + £61.75 costs awarded against them in a case which looked purely at the harassment carried out by the company.
The case looked at
• UKPAO's £3 a day 'liquidated damages'
• The pursuit of a keeper who was not the driver, despite being told 5 times
• UKPAO's threats that they could 'seize the car anywhere in the UK'
• Threats of bailiffs and bankruptcy
• Use of fake barcodes on their paperwork to add credence to their invoices
• The unsubstantiated increase in costs over time
• Stating that the DVLA have been contacted for keeper details when no such request was made
• The overalll conduct of UKPAO"
"News from Wakefield County Court today: UKPAO have had £1000 + £61.75 costs awarded against them in a case which looked purely at the harassment carried out by the company.
The case looked at
• UKPAO's £3 a day 'liquidated damages'
• The pursuit of a keeper who was not the driver, despite being told 5 times
• UKPAO's threats that they could 'seize the car anywhere in the UK'
• Threats of bailiffs and bankruptcy
• Use of fake barcodes on their paperwork to add credence to their invoices
• The unsubstantiated increase in costs over time
• Stating that the DVLA have been contacted for keeper details when no such request was made
• The overalll conduct of UKPAO"
unbelievable comments.
Posted by
Rowan Davies
at
07 Nov 11 00:39
If you have SEVERE WALKING DIFFICULTIES then you will be eligible for DLA at the higher rate;then you can apply for a blue badge. Allegations of people getting a blue badge for being "a bit fat" are nonsense. If their obesity is part of a health problem that results in severe walking difficulties then they would be entitled to a badge.
Blue badges are used by owners of private and council carparks as a means of identifying who has severe walking problems and therefore need accessible bays. This saves carpark owners/operators from having to issue their own permits and disabled people from having to apply for private passes in every off road carpark they use which would be ridiculous. Financial penalties are issued to deter people from abusing the spaces provided.
The more people argue that these financial penalties are unenforceable, the more carpark operators will use wheel clamping instead. Any person, disabled or otherwise, who does NOT have severe walking difficulties and parks in a bay designed to help people who do, deserves to be punished.
Blue badges are used by owners of private and council carparks as a means of identifying who has severe walking problems and therefore need accessible bays. This saves carpark owners/operators from having to issue their own permits and disabled people from having to apply for private passes in every off road carpark they use which would be ridiculous. Financial penalties are issued to deter people from abusing the spaces provided.
The more people argue that these financial penalties are unenforceable, the more carpark operators will use wheel clamping instead. Any person, disabled or otherwise, who does NOT have severe walking difficulties and parks in a bay designed to help people who do, deserves to be punished.
This advice is not true
1) Private parking tickets are not enforceable!
2) The landowner can only claim in court their material loss, if its free car parking there is no loss!
3) The PPCs (Private Parking Company) inflate their tickets to ridiculous amounts, which amounts to a penalty, it is illegal for a private company to issue penalties, its also illegal for private companies to call them fines.
4) PPCs use debt collectors that make people believe they are bailiffs, they are not!
5) One debt collecting agency routinely uses letterheads that claim they are solicitors (Graham White), they are being investigated.
6) The blue badge scheme does operate in private car parks.
7) There is no independent appeals process with any PPC they turn down ALL appeals, whether you are disabled or not.
The BPA is not a regulator, they are not independent, and they most certainly are there to look after their members!
You really need independent legal advice in regards to Private Car Parks, the solicitor on Wathdog is a legal expert on such matters, he does not have a vested interest in this unlike the BPA.